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Transcript: EP 16: The Wine Cocktails Show (Feat. Young and Yonder Spirits, and OG Cali Bartenders)

- The Young and Yonder line is one of my favorites. It's so fun and so unique.

- I've heard of Young and Yonder. Well. The panel's not here. That's embarrassing. I invited them. I told them to specifically be here at 4:00 PM.

- Cocktail that...

- Have you been drinking, sir?

- [Voiceover] Sir, have you been drinking this evening?

- No, no, no. Just about 10, 10 drinks in right now.

- Well, hello there. And welcome to another installment of cellar rats in the seller rats.

- I'm Jesse Inman and we are currently on location at Young and Yonder Spirits in Healdsburg, California. I'm Aaron Inman. The surgery went well. Can you tell?

- I can.

- Today we're going to be having a very special episode for you. It's our first location shoot. We're tasting cocktails. We got guests. I mean, we really feel like we've made it in this YouTube channel at this point. So please all three of you. Thanks for staying tune.

- Thanks mom. So we've got two Sonoma County rockstar bartenders here to help us craft some cocktails. We're going to take you step-by-step through the process and use Young and Yonder spirits and Lucky Rock Wines together to make those cocktails.

- And add a little extra step. We're going to have a panel taste those cocktails and talk about them. Cause what else are you gonna do on a YouTube episode?

- Get drunk, talk s***.

- Get drunk, discuss the merits of cocktails. Isn't that all that's done on YouTube?

- Yeah.

- I believe so.

- So it's basically, it'd be like a top chef with a bunch of drunk pirates.

- So Jesse will be on the first panel and then we'll swap them out and I'll be on the second panel. So to introduce our first panelist we've got Simon Popov, the third member of the Lucky Rock team and a certified wine specialist. Hey, don't hold that against him. He's a good decent guy. What you got to save for yourself my friend?

- Well, my name is Simon and I'm the one usually behind the camera. I wrote myself into this episode today.

- Cause who else would have, right? Absolutely. You got to get in front of the camera somehow. So yeah, I'm a WSS certified. Certified specialist of wine and all of that fancy stuff. These guys make the wine. I just b******* about it. But I did work for four months at a Korean barbecue joint as a bartender. And you can guess lots of, lots of AMFs. A lot of high alcohol-

- Serious tips. Serious tips.

- Oh yeah. I'm definitely all about the craft scene. You know what I'm saying. Nah, I'm kidding. I'm excited to taste these. This is going to be so much fun.

- All right. We're looking forward to having his opinion. Where's the trash can?

- Aaron's looking forward to having his opinion.

- All right. And so panelist number two, Josh Opatz. Owner of Young and Yonder Spirits which we owe a big ups to for letting us crash his beautiful distillery and tasting room located here in Healdsburg, California.

- Healdsburg, California. You got it. What's up guys?

- Thanks for lowering the bar.

- Yeah. Well, you know, we're always trying to lower the bar around here. So you guys fit right in.

- Perfect.

- Low brow is AAF.

- That's right. Nothing better than on a Tuesday afternoon to be drinking with you guys here. Ah, what's up everyone. My name is Josh Opatz. I'm one of the owners here at Young and Yonder Spirits. We're a craft distillery in Healdsburg. We make vodka, we make gin, we make bourbon. We make absinthe, amaro. We do cocktails. We do tastings. We do tours. So come on down and get some Bourbon Hills bourbon.

- Get it on.

- Come check us out.

- It's a cool spot.

- It's a very cool spot.

- Thanks man.

- No it really is.

- People have to say that kind of s*** on YouTube episodes, but I actually f****** mean it. It's great. It's beautiful. I'm coming here myself this weekend. Two kids are going to be here. We're going to put them over there with a shovel and some sand. And I'm going to drink up these.

- There you go.

- So I'm going to steal a couple of seconds with Josh and ask him a couple of questions. Because we want to know about Young and Yonder Spirits because you have the gangster new distillery on the block.

- Yes.

- So what do people not know about Young and Yonder Spirits they should.

- Cool, thanks. Thanks Aaron. I appreciate that. So, what we do here. We're a family owned craft distillery up in Sonoma County which is just north of San Francisco. We're a family owned small business. We basically make different types of spirits in small batches. We make two different types of vodka. We make gin. We make whiskey. We make a couple botanical spirits primarily absinthe and amaro. We're in the weeds. We're mashing core and we're mashing all sorts of stuff.

- Oh, you making weeds? You making weed here too?

- Oh yeah, all sorts of stuff. How do you think I pay the bills?

- Oh, Sonoma County. Sonoma County. Not that far from home.

- It's the latest thing. We're hand labeling. We're hand applying. The name Young and Yonder comes from my wife and I, even though I grew up here in Healdsburg. We moved out of this area for a long time went to work in bigger cities and decided-

- Yes, people do. People do that.

- People do do that. And so-

- Got to leave the small town, unless you're the local doctor, lawyer. We got an entrepreneur here.

- There you go. So yeah, wore a suit and tie for way too long but then decided, you know we were going to take a shift from our professional careers in the sense of the name, Young and Yonder. Us being young. And I'm moving back to my hometown. A small town to pursue our passion of entrepreneurship and practice making spirits.

- And Jesse and I know nothing about, you know believing in yourself. Funding yourself. And then going out there again.

- No.

- Yeah, we don't know-

- We don't need people to know that.

- So I'm going to put his feet to the fire here a little bit. Cause nobody that makes something and sells something wants to be, you know answer this question. What is your favorite cocktail?

- Mm. Geez. Okay, well.

- Wrong!

- Is it going to be wrong? It'll be different next week. But today, I'm going for it again. It's sunny. It's warm out. I'm still phasing out of a whiskey phase from the winter but I'm not going to go with the Paper Plane. So basically a nice whiskey meets citrus meets bitter cocktail and it's the perfect way to end a long, stressful day. So that's what I'm going with.

- Yeah, that's a solid pick and it won't get you as wasted as two Manhattans.

- That's true.

- That's nice. That little bit of lemon hits.

- Depends on how you make them.

- Thanks Josh.

- All right. So let's bring in our first bad-ass bartender from Sonoma county. Jessica Andrews. On the streets, they call her Jess.

- Hi.

- Nice to have you here today.

- Thank you for having me.

- Tell us a little bit about yourself.

- My name's Jess. I work at Jackson's Bar over in Santa Rosa, California.

- I've got drunk there before.

- A couple of times.

- Yes.

- I've been working there for about seven years.

- Nice.

- Started out as very part-time and now I'm there. I think all the time.

- Aren't you like the Queen of the Cocktails there?

- I am the Queen of the Cocktails.

- That's my understanding. Give yourself some more credit.

- Thank you.

- So I'm gonna ask you a little bit about your, your thoughts on a couple of topics. What do you think about wine? As an ingredient for cocktails?

- I love wine in cocktails. It has two aspects that you need in every cocktail. Acidity and good flavor.

- Sure.

- So you always want to start off with a wine that you would drink on its own.

- Yeah. You don't want to using **** wine.

- Exactly.

- So what do you look for when you're choosing a wine and a spirit?

- I look for something that binds the two together. That marries them. Maybe a similar tasting note or something that they can play off of, with each other.

- Sure.

- In the drink. Adding other ingredients as well but making sure those two could taste together on their own.

- Sure. You complete me kind of situation.

- Absolutely.

- Yeah. All right. So what cocktail are you going to be making for us today?

- I'm making something called Lucky Punch. It has the Sauvignon Blanc by Lucky Rock.

- Mm delicious.

- With the Young and Yonder Lime Vodka.

- Mm! Refreshing.

- With ginger, honey and some fresh berries.

- Nice. That sounds delicious.

- It's a little bit of a crowd pleaser.

- Yeah. Nice. I'm going to do a face plant after I drink the whole thing.

- Okay. So first I'm gonna start with some berries.

- Mm. Delicious.

- Blueberries and raspberries.

- Raspberries. In some countries they call them a strawberry but we'll go with raspberry.

- I think raspberry is good.

- Muddle these.

- Nice. That's good technique.

- And I'm going to add some lime juice.

- Lime juice. This is fresh lime juice.

- Organic?

- Organic.

- Ooh. Good.

- And then some syrup. This is a ginger honey.

- Ginger honey. Nice. And how did you come up with this cocktail?

- I originally came up with it with leftovers.

- Perfect.

- It was a holiday and I've used cranberries originally but I had ginger and honey in my fridge.

- Yeah.

- I was trying to impress the family.

- Nice.

- I'm the bartender of the family and-

- Well I still work with my family now and I'm impressed.

- Yes. So it was just one of those things that happened to come together. And I went back to the bar and tweaked a little a couple of things and made them a little more elevated.

- Yeah, nice.

- And now we have a finished product.

- You can already start to smell how aromatic it is.

- The Young and Yonder line is one of my favorites. It's so fun.

- I've heard of Young and Yonder.

- And so unique.

- And is this a take off of any kind of drink that we might know? A cocktail we might know?

- I would say closest would be, like a wine spritzer.

- Wine spritzer. Sweet.

- Easy to drink. It has that lime flavor.

- Yeah.

- It's carbonated. There's fruit.

- An elevated wine spritzer.

- Absolutely. Shake it up.

- Tom cruise it up a little bit. And the other guy from cocktail that nobody ever remembers. Whatever his name is. He dies at the end. Sorry, spoiler alert.

- The mentor.

- Now double strain to get the seeds and skin off from the berries.

- Nice. It's usually what I do with my toilet Merlot. It's got a beautiful color. Pink. Very pink.

- Very pink. For everybody.

- For everybody, except children.

- Yes.

- This is a family show.

- Right. There's age limits. Top with ice.

- Nice. You got to have it nice and cold. Because it won't cocktail- What's the word I'm looking for? Sucks. That's what it does.

- Yeah. This needs to be refreshing.

- Maybe by the pool.

- Absolutely.

- If you have one of those. Fancy pants audience. And some berries.

- All the garnishes, there's never enough.

- That's some of the fun part about-

- And then finish it with a fun straw.

- Elevating cocktails. Look at how beautiful that is.

- Drink with your eyes.

- Drink with your eyes. Yeah.

- Lucky punch!

- Beautiful. Can't wait to sip these with the panel. Thanks Jess.

- Your Welcome.

- All right. So my hard part's over. Going to turn it over this capable young man. Some people call my brother.

- Now the professionals start.

- See you. On the panel.

- All right. So we're going to bring in my dear friend, Danny Oh. I've known this young handsome bastard for about 15 or 16 years. If my friend Danny would please step into the scene. Let's see now. Hello friends. How are ya?

- Yep. So tell us little-

- Awesome.

- Danny? Daniel. Yeah.

- Name, location. Name, sex, location.

- Name, sex, location. I'm binary.

- There's lots about binaries. I'm Daniel Ojinaga. I've been in the bar industry, a little over 20 years now. Give or take. I've been crafting cocktails, since I think, since I started working with you.

- Yeah.

- You know. On a very solid level. Got to start a brand called The Good Time Bros. Once upon a time we had a podcast. We did some events.

- I have their tattoo on my leg.

- Yes. And then after you were on our podcast. We can go get tattoos of your logo. It's a great day, special bond.

- You get moved up and then you fill it with ink.

- Yeah.

- Or whatever.

- We also did an event here at Young and Yonder. Called the Bitter Brawl. So that was exciting. So I've been able to work with Josh and to get to know these guys as well.

- Yep. Good peeps.

- And now I'm just been furloughed and enjoying life.

- COVID!

- Coronavirus!

- So, we're doing wine cocktails. Which obviously involves wine and spirits.

- Correct.

- What are you looking for in a wine and or spirits when you're picking one for a cocktail?

- Ah, generally I don't. So.

- Well I'm so glad we could force you into this. Just kidding. No but I mean, really kind of building off that. I mean, to me it was an exciting challenge. I liked it because I do use a lot of vermouth. Amaro, aperitifs, you know fortified wines and stuff like that.

- They're like cousins.

- Yeah. So just kind of thinking about how that's going to play. I think I've always tried to take ingredients that maybe seem a little off and then kind of making this butterfly. Let's make a little butterfly out of a larva, you know. So, yeah.

- And so when you put a spirit and a wine together. What would you use both for respectively in the in the cocktail?

- Like the cocktail I'm going to be doing. It was using your wine in a place of let's say Aperol.

- Yeah.

- Something like that. An aperitif. And then, I don't know. It's just kinda hard cause I will kind of go backwards. What I'm going to be making for you is Plain Lucky. It is a variation off a Paper Plane. Which I think I heard was Josh's favorite cocktail.

- Yeah.

- I actually made it up on the fly. The last time we were here back in November.

- That's why I like you.

- Yes. So.

- After my own heart.

- So yeah. We have lemon juice, chai syrup and then we have their bourbon Young and Yonder's bourbon. Young and Yonder amaro. And then of course your fantastic Pinot Noir.

- Penis Noir.

- Penis Noir. All right, let's get rolling. I'm going to start with a half ounce of lemon juice. And just says with the Paper Plane. Most people do it. It's usually all equal specs. Most of the times with cocktails like that all I do is boost the spirit. Maybe like a quarter ounce, a little bit more, but.

- The ingredients you're using and say like the lemon juice, lime juice, amaros. Are you picking them for a specific reason? Is it like, a certain brand maybe? Or do you stick to organic? Or do you just kind of use lime juice, lemon juice. The rounds.

- Ah, yes.

- Yeah.

- I mean, I would love to say that. Yeah. I'm always going to specifically go for organic lemons. I mean, using fresh juice, regardless. Is the way to go. It's just kind of depends on where you're at and what you're kind of doing.

- Yeah.

- If I'm in a bar-

- Whose house your at.

- Yeah. Like where are you buying them from? Yada yada. And then, you know, with the syrup it's basically just making chai tea and then adding the sugar to it. And then just kind of. So this is a little quick style. This one I do just add some lime in there and add a little bit of a vanilla extract as well. Just to kind of bring it out. Which I think is what works with even the wine and the bourbon.

- Yeah. That's one thing I've noticed that Danny he really likes to make his own concoctions, especially when it comes to simple stuff. He'll infuse things. And we've included some of the recipes for those in the- You'll find them in the links in the video.

- Yeah and I keep it pretty simple with the recipe for the chai. I didn't add, that I did that. And now I mean I can do that. But again, it's just kind of like seeing what I have around me and then really just trying to make the magic happen.

- Yeah.

- Usually it works out.

- Yeah. If not. You just drink it and start over.

- Exactly. So then I did a three quarter ounce of chai tea syrup and usually I'll always go with the least expensive ingredients first. So if you're making these at home and you, you F up. You can dump that down the sink and you're not wasting booze.

- I've never actually thought about that before. That makes perfect sense. You don't want to throw your lovely alcohols away. You want to throw the sparkling water away.

- Throw your sugar. Your citrus.

- Yeah.

- And then I got three quarter ounce of Young and Yonder bourbon. Hopefully this.

- Oh yeah.

- This is for the flies.

- Oh, look at that. That's very fly.

- For a white guy. ♪ And all the girls say ♪ ♪ I'm pretty fly for a white guy ♪

- I got three quarter ounce amaro. I need to showcase that there. And of course, three quarter ounce. And so you're using this basically in place of? This would be in place of Aperol. Aperol, yeah.

- Of course there's going to be some different notes. But there's enough citrus that comes from the amaro. And so these almost kind of work in conjunction of being aperol and a different amaro.

- Yeah.

- I mean, this one is very close to the Amaro Nonino, that is used in the Paper Plane.

- And this has a sweetness that the amaro doesn't.

- A little bit, yeah. But you know, and that's what just kind of fun here because the different notes that you will get on there you know, I mean there are some earthy notes and then you do get some like dark fruit as well.

- Mhmm.

- So. And a lot of it is really just kind of b******* that I did make it up on the fly. Which is kind of like, I feel like these things would go together.

- Welcome to my life Danny.

- Yeah. ♪ Welcome to my life ♪

- It's fun. And I dunno, that's what I've always been kind of known for is. Just random. Random cocktails. So I set it up.

- I remember you came up with the naked lady. At Monty's. And that's still to this day one of my favorite cocktails.

- That was a good one.

- And is this a traditional glass for this cocktail?

- So this is a coupe. Yeah. So it's usually served in a coupe. But of course, it's always kind of preference. As you can see, you feel like there's enough body on there then you can probably throw it over ice as well. Look how lovely. That fits in there perfectly. And then a lot of times with Paper Planes I will usually get a grapefruit and zest that. You can do lemon peel as well. Just to kind of get a little bit more aromatics. Here we're just going to throw a little lime because there is lime in the chai tea. So that just kind of slightly bring that out a little bit more. And there you go.

- Simple and delicious.

- Plain Lucky.

- [Jesse] Yum.

- [Danny] Cheers.

- [Jesse] Can't wait to try it. You want to try it? No?

- You try it.

- We're good. We're good.

- It's yummy, yes.

- Well, the panel's not here. That's embarrassing. I invited them. I told them to specifically be here at 4:00 PM. Oh, there they are. All right. Sweet. You guys showed up. Nice. So I'm here with my esteemed panel. Josh Opatz, master distiller.

- Just janitor.

- Just janitor. Master janitor. We've got Simon, the wine guy. And Jesse Inman, entrepreneur, wine maker extraordinaire.

- Master debater.

- So we are going to discuss as people do. They sit around on couches with cocktails and discuss them. That's a thing people do on TV and then discuss the merits of the cocktail.

- Do they drink them though?

- What a stupid question.

- Well, you do have to drink them to discuss them. So this is Jess. Jess's Lucky Punch. Jess's Lucky Punch. So Opatz, commence drinking.

- Thank you. I've been waiting for that.

- Cheers.

- Cheers.

- Oh, wow.

- Cheers!

- Yeah.

- Wow, fancy.

- Oh, somebody will clean that up.

- Going straw method.

- The janitor. The janitor will do it.

- Mm.

- Okay Opatz. What do you think about the balance of that cocktail?

- That is a tasty cocktail. So basically when we're ever workshopping here. Workshopping for our new cocktail for the menu. I like to think about the composition for the season. I like to think composition of the product itself.

- Sure.

- So, and then I look for the like the basically, aromatic and sensory qualities of the product. So like basically I think about primarily the nose, taste, finish.

- Mhmm.

- And in this case, like with the season getting warmer I can see this being a really nice summer cocktail.

- Sure.

- This basically has elements of fresh berry meets lime which a lot of times gets associated with summer cocktails. Finish is really clean and elegant. Like there's a lot of times with the finish like you can be so close on a workshop on a cocktail and have the finish just like fall apart. Either there's not enough acidity. There's like, there's just not enough flavor to carry like a lingering finish for a cocktail.

- Kind of short on the palate.

- It is short. Yeah, basically it just dies off really quick. So we can be so close to something and be like, God, it smells great. You know, like the first punch of flavor is great but then it just like dies. And so like with this one you have, again, I think with the berries, like gives you that upfront punch but then you get the lime that carries you through the rest of the palate. And the lime sort of sits on your palate afterwards.

- Sure.

- And makes like a really nice balance.

- This is the epitome of a porch pounder. Like this is-

- Dangerous.

- It is dangerous.

- So you're a fan?

- I'm into it.

- You're a fan.

- I'm going to finish this.

- Simon? From a wine guys perspective. What are you thinking here?

- For starters. The presentation is like if I have to give a 10 out of 10, I'd probably give it a 20. It was probably the coolest, prettiest cocktail I've ever seen.

- Similar to the bartender that made it.

- Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it kind of reminds me of like the like a Lemoncello. Like a pink lemonade, which is like so much more kind of boozy.

- But like better than when you were barfing it up in high school, you know.

- Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.

- I meant college.

- I mean, I mean, currently.

- You're fired.

- Oh, shoot.

- And Jesse, what do you think from a participant perspective in general?

- Well, I don't know if I could put a better than Opatz. But-

- Opatz monologue about the thing.

- Yeah.

- Jesus.

- Like, way to light it. He lit it up

- But it is. It's the epitome of- And it's funny because was this the lime vodka that they used?

- Yes, Lime. Yeah.

- I forgot about that. Cause the grapefruits floating there. I'm like, oh yeah. That lime like marries with the grapefruit perfectly. And it's got, it's clean, it's crisp. But it's also not unsubstantial as a cocktail.

- Sure. It's got some weight to it.

- A lot of weight, a lot of flavor. Well-rounded, good balance. I mean, I'm biased because our wines in there and whatnot, but it's pretty god damn good.

- The nice thing is like everything kind of just works together. Like, you know, if you wanted to, if I want to just kind of try to focus on the Sauvignon Blanc notes, like it just doesn't work out.

- Sure.

- Cause it just blends so well with the berry notes. Just works so well all across the board.

- Yeah, it's really well-rounded. It's super tasty.

- The lime works well. And then there's the grapefruit marries well with the wine because like Sauvignon Blanc especially had so much grapefruit in it.

- Sure.

- That they marry well and all the other. It's just very like geometrically opposed correctly. If that makes any sense.

- Yeah.

- It sounds cool.

- And the thing is, is this color, you know. As men here, I liked that it. It pushes our boundaries of masculinity. We can sit around here talking about a pink drink and I'm totally comfortable.

- Yeah.

- I'm down.

- I think it's the audience you guys.

- Actually let me change my legs.

- Switch it up.

- And I think that's where this stands really well. Is like this. This has like the essence of of Sauvignon Blanc. But then it has like this essence of lime, essence of berry. And like they're not necessarily all in equal parts but they're all present and compliment each other.

- Sure.

- So I think that's really important.

- It's not like you put the wine in there just to have wine in it.

- Yeah, exactly.

- In the wine making business. When you have a wine and sometimes there's some holes in it. So you, you can have tools to be able to fill those, like with oak. Like, oh, I want American Oak or I want French Oak or I want, you know, maybe a whole cluster and you can start to round this wine. It's a little thin in certain spots and this is the cocktail has the same thing. It's like nice and round.

- Yeah so that's why with cocktails you can be a little bit more experimental than with wine. Like you have to do a whole vintage through.

- It's a three year commitment.

- And it's like, hey. Oh yeah, at least the two years. And it's like, Hey, I didn't like that that much. Well, better luck next year. Versus this is like, we can play around. Tweak it a little bit.

- I got to say that was a lot more insightful than I thought it was going to be man.

- I mean, I was like, what are we going to actually and then I actually learned a lot about you guys, myself, the cocktail.

- I even cried a little.

- Yeah. Well I don't have tear ducts. But I got caught in a ride in a ski accident. But-

- Wow, tell us more about that.

- We don't have time to go into it. It's complicated and sad.

- Well, I think that that was a lively discussion and we should move on to a discussion number two.

- Well we should cheers one more time.

- Yeah.

- Oh, yeah second cheers.

- Cheers guys.

- Who's going to s*** on a second cheers.

- Mm. Mm. Mm!

- Beat that Booby Flay.

- And so just like any brother and it's a little brother. Now's my time to shine. Anyway enough about me. What do you guys think of the cocktails?

- We haven't had them yet.

- Why don't you try them?

- Let's do it.

- Okay.

- This could be a tough cheers.

- No cheers.

- That's up.

- All right, keep it level guys. Level! I'm not going. I'm going to miss Aaron sorry.

- Holy S***.

- What do you think OP?

- It's a exceptionally made cocktail that-

- Have you been drinking, sir?

- Sir. Have you been drinking this evening?

- No, no, no. Just about 10, 10 drinks in right now.

- For research.

- Yeah, exactly. Balancing another palate. So what's, I think really cool about this is something we didn't talk about too much in the last cocktail that we'll talk about here, is like the use of head in cocktails.

- What are you doing there man?

- Please.

- Sorry.

- I know. I know. Sorry guys.

- No! No! He said head.

- If I had hair I'd toss it.

- This is a serious conversation.

- Sorry.

- There is an opportunity-

- The froth.

- Like when I think about, yeah. When I think about the, the use of like basically using foam as a mechanism to kind of, to hold up aromatics like hold up aromatics and add like a viscosity to the spirit and the cocktail. It basically can make sure that it gives you a better perspective of when you smell like you carry it through the taste and into the finish. And so like with this, like what immediately surprised me is like I expected one thing and the what I feel like is the foam carried forth what actually, what I would be drinking. Which is like it carried the chai flavor up. And I think like had the foam not been present like the chai probably would've been more of a surprise.

- Yeah.

- But the, you know, like having that to that foam layer really helps with like a almost like an intro into the spirit. Overall really good viscosity, which again I didn't feel that we covered too much in the first one but it's really important in cocktail making.

- We call it mouth feel in the way in business.

- Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, we think of like, even in the spirits business, we think of like products having different levels of viscosity and different like attributes for what make them what they are. So when we look for viscosities in different spirits and we like try to make sure that we attribute some form of balance between them. You're kind of like the market expectations and the social ethic expectations around a spirit. And like the density and character. And I feel like, you know, again, using the attributes that develop foam, helps you to draw out like good viscosity characteristics.

- And in tandem with viscosity. I also, because being a winemaker, I like tannin, Tannin is in the skins of the grapes and the chai tea and the tannins of the Pinot. I think they marry really well. And I think because then you have to viscosity. Because you don't want too much tannin. Cause then it's a dry cocktail.

- Yeah.

- You don't have too much viscosity. Cause then it feels like you have butter in your mouth.

- Right.

- And so it's like, again, finding that balance. And this cocktail has a lot of very diametrically opposed pieces and that marry again, very well.

- Absolutely. And I think the tannin in here, and then I'll hop off my soap box but tannin helps to like basically sharpen flavor profile.

- Right. Like, so like, I feel like you get like a really punchy vibrant flavor that comes out like just by using tannin to your advantage. Not your disadvantage and this cocktail choke is in spades.

- Man. I didn't find you attractive until just now.

- Thanks dude.

- You, sir.

- I used a lot of jargon. I try to be, I try to be sexy.

- I'd give it a shot. Let me tell ya.

- Well let me go get my cocktail dictionary and follow up this right here.

- Take notes boys. Take notes.

- No, that was insightful. I think I was looking at this. We talk a lot about mouth feel in wine.

- Yeah.

- I mean people talk about aromatics too but we, a lot of people love to talk about mouth feel. Especially with Pinot Noir. And this, the mouthfeel, which has a lot to do with what you're talking about with tannin, viscosity. Has an impeccable mouth feel. It's just like it's from, from start to finish. It's just like, got this even roundness all the way back.

- Yeah. It's way more than I expected.

- Yeah. Which you don't, you know, you don't get in cocktails a lot, you know, sometimes they're front-loaded. Back-loaded, whatever. This one is like extremely balanced.

- Yeah.

- And from a texture standpoint, it's delicious.

- And that's why I like Dan's philosophy is like if you give me the ingredients, I'll make them work. And then if they don't work and I still like them, I'll tweak them. And I think this is a good, a good example of that.

- Yeah. It's super tasty.

- Yeah, one of the things I wanted to say it's just incredible that it's just completely, you know a couple of different ingredients. Come up on the fly, just makes it so exceptional. And it's really, you know it's really hard to follow up with that. That was my thought too, is like, it just it has so much richness, it has so much texture. There's a front, there's a middle, there's a finish. It's just kind of carries you through, everything. You get the classic kind of shy notes. You also get, you know, the, the Pinot Noir. You also get the Lucky Rock which is something that is amazing.

- You know there's wine in there.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- But I was thinking the amaro adds a spice to it.

- Yes, exactly.

- A spicy component. That's necessary.

- Also the shy too.

- But I feel like this could go winter or summer.

- Well I was just thinking.

- For sure.

- This is a year round. This is a year round menu.

- But if you're sipping this by the fire. Yeah. There's no let down. But if you're having this, like in a cabana in Vegas at a foam party, perhaps.

- What are you doing later man?

- Let's get the hell out of here.

- Then, you know, you're going to be happy too. I mean this lives both lives.

- Yeah.

- And also just to talk about the presentation. I mean I said 20 out of 10 last time. This is easily 15 out of 10. Not quite matching up to the presentation of the previous one, but still amazing.

- Yeah. The previous one. The presentation was like, I don't know. It just looked like a fun time and it followed it up with that. Like it's just summer time, you know, fruity. Just fresh. This. It looks like a Manhattan. Like a Paper Plane and it fits the profile of what you expect from that. But it's beautiful.

- Yeah. And I would say that there is importance in not judging a book by its cover because I feel like-

- I live by that.

- Well, we all do. We're poor entrepreneurs. We all get it. But like, okay. So if I, without criticism saw both cocktails side by side. That we were trying today. I would have been more expectant to have the first cocktail or, you know, or the the basically, the berry lime cocktail tastes like how it did.

- Sure.

- Where as this one, it doesn't look extravagant. But-

- It kind of threw you for a loop.

- But it has like elements of complexity to it that are, that are just nice.

- This one has a lot more depth.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, yeah, it's just like surface versus depth. Not always like, just like saying that, you know more berries means more flavor.

- Right. Right.

- It's just like.

- But you're layering a couple of different stages. I mean, you got, you know, you got the bourbon, you got the amaro. Which is, you know, I had that in your other grapefruit cocktail. I mean, amaro with kind of grapefruit-

- That was behind the scenes. That was behind the scenes.

- So?

- Well would you say as a distiller that amaro has finesse? Or is it more of what, what is the? What is the descriptor that you would you would give to amaro as an addition to a cocktail?

- So, if it's not on its own, which is the the customary way is basically to either drink it on the rocks neat, or with like a flavorless bubble.

- Yeah.

- Like soda.

- It's a digestif. Right?

- Exactly. So it's an Italian origin bittersweet liqueur. Which basically, liqueur means that there's a presence of sweetness added to the distillation process. But in the sense of what we're talking about here. I would say, we're talking about, we're adding bitterness. We're adding flavor and adding density. I think those are the three attributes that you think about when you think about whether it's an aperitif. That's campari or aperol or amaro or any other amari that are in the marketplace.

- Those are the three pillars you're kind of working with.

- Those are sort of where they bring they bring value to a like a multilayered cocktail. In my opinion, so.

- Makes sense. Well, this was, let's cheers to Danny and his delicious Plain Lucky.

- Don't mind knowing you.

- And here's to Uber.

- Yeah, that'll be the case.

- All right guys. We appreciate you hanging out with us today. Hopefully you learned something about craft cocktails. How wine and spirits mix together to make epic foam. Things of that nature. I want to thank Josh Opatz and his beautiful distillery here in Healdsburg, California.

- We really appreciate it.

- I want to thank Jess and Danny O for these amazing cocktails. It was really an epic day. I want to thank my brother for, you know well he was here and that was important to me.

- That's all I can do.

- And I want to thank you guys for coming out and bringing down the vibe in this place.

- Yeah, your like literally bringing down the vibe.

- That's what we do. That's what we do. We lower the bar.

- Thanks for making me look bad.

- We lower the bar.

- Cheers.

- Cheers.

- Cheers. And we'll see you on the next episode.

- Let's do another one guys. We can do better.